The Joint Approach

Unity across schools has never been Harvard's strength, as students who want to study under the University's wide range of experts will tell you.

Each year, a few dozen students try to combine law with politics or business with education. There is one established program--a joint law and business degree, the joint JD/MBA. And other schools have agreements with each other that permit their students to cross register.

But, students report, schools have difficulty looking beyond the scope of their own programs.

"There is no university here," says Jonathan M. Grossman, who is enrolled at the Kennedy School of Government (KSG) and Harvard Law School (HLS).

"Schools should recognize that [a multiple degree program] is a great experience, and they shouldn't let their...pettiness get in the way of students," he says.

Grossman and his colleagues list scheduling problems, greater financial burdens, social concerns and the distances between the campuses as worries that plague students who want to pursue two different degrees.

But, they add, in the end it's all worth it.

Parochial, Individualistic Attitudes

Administrators at the different schools say they have been trying for years to make the lives of these multi-disciplinary students easier. The fact remains, however, that each school runs a separate administration and is hesitant to join or cooperate with the administration of any other.

"[The schools] can't make rational policies for joint students," Grossman says. "We don't exist." He says HLS, where he is a full-time student, will not recognize his status as a part-time student at KSG.

The separate nature of all of the graduate schools leads to missed opportunities for students pursuing multiple degrees, Grossman adds.

For instance, classes are not consistently cross-listed between departments and graduate schools, making it difficult for students to take advantage of valuable opportunities at different schools.

"There are all sorts of little problems with regard to registrations, graduation, fees, priority for getting into classes," Grossman says.

Scheduling burdens create the most pervasive hassle for multiple-degree candidates.

For example, HLS schedules classes in two different time blocks--Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Wednesday, Thursday, Friday--and KSG schedules classes for one-and-a-half hour blocks every other day. One HLS block of classes conflicts with 6 of 10 KSG blocks, which makes it extremely difficult for law students to take specific KSG classes or vice-versa.

"[Scheduling differences] are a bit schizophrenic," said James L. Doak a business tutor in Winthrop House who is in his final year of the joint JD/MBA program.

Vacation scheduling also creates difficulties. Winter break and "fly-out week" (when third year law students have no classes so that they may leave campus to conduct interviews) rarely coincide from graduate school to graduate school.

This means that students who are already pursuing rigorous programs have little to no vacation time.

John T. Tolsma, a proctor in Grays Hall who is in his final year of the JD/MBA program, says, "I've not had a spring break in three years."

Moreover, the schools often have different standards for awarding class credit, meaning that a student could take a class at KSG and be forced to petition for credit at HLS.

Tamara B. Butler '95, who is pursuing a concurrent degree between Harvard Business School (HBS) and the Graduate School of Education (GSE), says HBS warned her of the rigidity of their requirements.

According to Butler, the administration said "don't let [the Education School classes] impact MBA requirements."

Additionally, concurrent programs, through which students receive two degrees by working simultaneously with two schools and basically fulfilling the requirements for both, can create financial burdens for students.

Certain programs have different standards for financial aid.

Grossman notes that both KSG and HLS require an individual student contribution of $2,500 in the student's first year, so concurrent degree candidates endure a double burden.

There are also social ramifications of pursuing multiple degrees, students say.

Doak says, "You end up with two groups of friends who occasionally have very little to do with each other."

But in addition to the dichotomy of the social circles, joint degree candidates and concurrent degree candidates usually take at least one extra year to complete their requirements.

As Doak said of his classmates, "they are already out making a difference."

Last but not least, there are, of course, logistical issues involved in taking classes on multiple campuses.

Joint JD/MBA candidates, especially, noted this difficulty.

Professor of Law Howell E. Jackson, a joint JD/MBA recipient, says he remembered doing "a lot of walking back and forth across the river."

Profiles: Who, Why, and What Next?

Students say the extra trials were ultimately worth it.

Tolsma says his joint JD/MBA program has enriched his Harvard experience immeasurably, allowing him to take full advantage of the numerous opportunities available at Harvard.

"The greatest benefit of it all is that you realize that Harvard as an entire university is so much more rich when you're able to take advantage of all of the different parts of it," he says.

After graduation, Tolsma plans to work for a video-production firm in Tennessee, where he says, happily, "I'm going to be allowed to straddle the fence between law and business a little while longer."

Doak, another joint JD/MBA candidate, reiterates the benefits of this multi-disciplinary approach.

"Most of us find something that is able to mix our interests," he says. "These days that means...entrepreneurs, business development at Internet companies."

Doak says he is going into financial re-structuring work, a law-heavy business field, while classmates of his are already running Internet startups in California and Hong Kong.

Grossman, who will graduate in the spring with KSG and HLS degrees, plans to work for a prominent law firm in Washington D.C. where one-third of the work is governmental.

Butler, who is pursuing a concurrent degree with GSE and HBS, says of the program, "It's been great for what I want to do."

She is considering careers in corporate training or K-12 education reform.

The Process

Pursuing degrees in different graduate and professional schools often means unofficially enrolling in both. Students say school administrations often do not recognize their dual status and count them as just one of the masses. There are often two applications to fill out and two tuitions to pay.

Gayle Merrithew, the registrar at GSE, says students can be discouraged by the fact that they must be admitted to each school separately before they can pursue a concurrent degree.

Often students then have to work out plans of study between the two schools.

Students pursuing concurrent degrees with the GSE and either HLS or HBS may double count four courses. This amounts to a reduction of approximately one semester in the total amount of completion time.

Likewise, with the concurrent program between KSG and HLS and joint JD/MBA program, small reductions in requirements also exist.

Generally with these degrees, candidates spend one full year at each school, enduring boot camp twice, as Jackson notes. The final semesters are then split between the schools, and this is when students encounter logistical and scheduling difficulties.

Daniel J.T. Devroye, who is in his third year at the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences (GSAS) and working on his Ph.D. in Political Economy and Government [PEG}, reflected the thoughts of many joint and concurrent degree candidates.

"I don't think that the requirements are too daunting," he says.

Making Progress at HLS

HLS plays an influential role in many joint and concurrent degree programs, and its administration--in both its policies and its goals--reflects many of the difficulties facing all of the Harvard graduate schools.

While a number of HLS students each year pursue a second or joint Harvard degree while in law school, the process, students say, is an arduous one mired in bureaucracy.

"The Law School faculty in particular has created a structure where even things that are supported are put through a complicated committee, sub-committee process," Grossman says.

Grossman has been spearheading a student-led campaign to establish an official joint degree between KSG and HLS, in addition to the already-existing JD/MBA program.

In his opinion, official joint programs encourage more teamwork between the various schools.

"With a joint program, one would hope you would have a regular ongoing dialogue between the two schools as to how things would work for people," Grossman says.

Doak, a joint JD/MBA candidate, notes a few consistent benefits of the joint degree program.

For instance, he says that at the business school, joint degree students enjoy two years with senior status.

Despite the official program, JD/MBA candidates still complain of logistical difficulties and schedules that have yet to be standardized between HLS and HBS.

Grossman characterized the law school as "very receptive in theory," but says, "[it] has not taken any action."

Nonetheless, HLS says it has concrete plans to make changes.

Byrne Professor of Administrative Law and Associate Dean Todd D. Rakoff expresses a desire to establish more programs like the joint JD/MBA.

"We're looking to establish more formal ties, certainly with the K-School, maybe with some of the arts and sciences departments," Rakoff says.

In fact, he says he hopes to establish a joint degree program with KSG within the next year.

And Tolsma, a joint JD/MBA candidate said that in his four years between the two schools, they had each made great strides in accommodating the joint degree students.

Meanwhile, KSG has established multiple joint programs with other law schools across the East, including Yale and New York University.

The Simpler Track: GSAS

Students not wishing to pursue solely professional degrees can also design their own multi-disciplinary programs within GSAS.

GSAS, as one unified umbrella organization with many sub-departments, facilitates the smooth completion of such an ad-hoc or inter-faculty degree. Candidates express few frustrations with the system.

"The inter-faculty degrees are not necessarily more challenging or time-consuming than a straight Ph.D. degree," John B. Fox, Jr., Secretary of FAS, says.

Eleven inter-faculty programs already exist within GSAS, but the graduate school is open to increasing these numbers.

"Of all the schools at Harvard, we are the most interdisciplinary," says Garth O. McCavana, assistant dean for student affairs in GSAS.

Devroye, in fact, praises the program for its many benefits.

"We're probably lucky to have the additional breadth," he said, "[PEG] allows you to delay committing to one discipline or another."

Devroye has none of the complaints cited by candidates for multiple professional degrees.

"We've got a pretty good advising system," he says. "[Each department] treats us as members of their own department."

In addition to the advising provided by GSAS faculty, KSG faculty also advises PEG students. They actually run a weekly seminar solely for PEG students, who present their research ideas to each other.

The Numbers

In general, the number of people who pursue multiple degrees is very small. Because the programs are often unofficial exact numbers are hard to attain.

Grossman approximated that 40 students are currently pursuing concurrent degree programs between HLS and KSG.

The joint JD/MBA program is about the same size, with 9 people graduating this year.

Rakoff of HLS says that enough students are interested each year to make these programs worthwhile, but only a small proportion of the student body actually enrolls in joint programs.

At the GSE, there is one student pursuing a concurrent degree with HLS and one with HBS.

More students pursue ad-hoc degrees of their design or pre-established within GSAS.

As more and more students and faculty across the University recognize the importance of the multi-disciplinary approach, numbers will probably increase. It's now just a matter of creating greater unity and consistency between the schools and perhaps designing more joint degree programs.